ex
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Post by ex on Feb 13, 2008 18:10:49 GMT
Music = patterns of percussion and/or melody that are intuitively satisfying to the soul of the listener... alright hows about that for the all-encompassing perfect definition!!
I think if you don't make music, then its fine to have a bohemian blurring of music and mere audio, but personally as someone that does make music, or tries to, I think when you start getting into saying random noise is music, then you're effectively saying everything audible is musical, and from that standpoint on what basis are you discerning what is good music and what is bad music, it becomes problematic... and again it gets dangerously close to the province of pretension... I think a living thing can be moved by music but can only be inspired by a noise - there's another bold statement!
"Good music has [some sort of] melody..."
DISCUSS THE ABOVE!
I can't actually think of anything good that doesn't have melody and detectable form but perhaps some obscure industrial group shall come to mind later.
Nothing wrong with being passionate about listening to sound design and noise collage and random triggering of synths semi-mathematically or whatever it may be, but its content with melody and form that will garner respect and real interest from the vast majority of the populous and recognition that the artist has a skill as opposed to a skillless randomlessness anything which any old pretentious non-clothed emperor fuckwit can make... and the criteria for goodness has to be more than just 'its weird'... anyway, nothing wrong in expressing opinions sometimes either... this being a forum 'n' all!
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p
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Post by p on Feb 13, 2008 18:29:55 GMT
If it has no rhythm, no melody,nor harmony or lacks any kind of (song) structure, then it is not music but sound, or noise. Those are not absolute boundaries, like for example, any instrument solo can wander of on it's own, but at some point should fall back into the original structure. And I suppose any kind of sound has it's place, it's appreciation, just not for me
finkdom minute 2 to 4 The sound effect on the drum pattern returns, and again around the 3.45 mark, nicely done, and not overdone. The guitar build up along with the increasing high keyboard notes (could even be vibraphone) folowed by the guitar that kinda opens up to then fade out, is till now my favourite part. all this in only 30 seconds . . . well it just fits. from then on it's (more or less) back to the former structure. I just think now, if the track would finish on 3.55 it would be perfect in length. I realise I only examined half of it, but that's how I feel atm
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Post by ghinzu on Feb 13, 2008 19:06:40 GMT
Yeah, saying every sound is music was a bit extreme, that's not the best way to put it.. but I'm still pretty loose when it comes to defining what music 'is'. Maybe you know the record, but following your logic, a record such as 'Meet the Residents' - one of my favorite musical pieces set to recorder - could hardly be labelled as 'music'. Yet, they are satisfying to my soul (and with me, many other music fans). And what about ambient? No music? I'm just wondering.. but I can't spot any melody nor rythm in most ambient pieces... yet, never sprung a thought to my mind to deny it being called music. I admit I'm not a musician (yet, hope to pick up studies next year), but I simply think your definition of music is a tad too strict.. in my opinion, music can't be described by one definition... it's a bit too complex to do so. Just my 2p
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ex
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Post by ex on Feb 13, 2008 19:44:24 GMT
Ambient music generally does have a melody and a rhythm, just quite an abstract or slow one... well I had fun with this discussion!
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ex
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Post by ex on Feb 13, 2008 19:44:43 GMT
And yes Mr P it is a vibraphone, well spotted!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ex
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Post by ex on Feb 13, 2008 19:57:25 GMT
For anyone who's interested the extra elements are: sub-bass a riff which resembles the tone of D's twisted reverb trail on the original [which is also a bass but sounds like a horn mating with a guitar] spring verb on snares during the tracks alternate sections and a bleep vibraphone with reverse reverb effect which sort of resembles an aspect of the original squeak-line some stuttering orchestral samples [that also sound a bit sonically congruent to the original] and slight taming of the drums and tiny cut in the mids of original
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Post by briaeos on Feb 13, 2008 20:44:43 GMT
well, good and bad are categories that are heavily depending on personal taste...and that's where all definitons stops to make sense....
ex, i know that you know really well what i mean under "experimental forms of music vs. musical"... musical = "more or less conventional music with occasional wierdness" and experimental = something which average listener would find annoying or wouldn't understand (as i non-musican see/understand things)
even the most fucked-up pieces of what appears to be random noise have somekind of pattern (rhythm or melody)...
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Post by ghinzu on Feb 13, 2008 20:49:02 GMT
Ambient music generally does have a melody and a rhythm, just quite an abstract or slow one... well I had fun with this discussion! Pardon me if I annoyed ya..
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ex
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Post by ex on Feb 13, 2008 21:33:05 GMT
Ambient music generally does have a melody and a rhythm, just quite an abstract or slow one... well I had fun with this discussion! Pardon me if I annoyed ya.. Not at all, sir!
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ex
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Post by ex on Feb 13, 2008 21:33:50 GMT
well, good and bad are categories that are heavily depending on personal taste...and that's where all definitons stops to make sense.... ex, i know that you know really well what i mean under "experimental forms of music vs. musical"... musical = "more or less conventional music with occasional wierdness" and experimental = something which average listener would find annoying or wouldn't understand (as i non-musican see/understand things) even the most fucked-up pieces of what appears to be random noise have somekind of pattern (rhythm or melody)... yep i know what you mean mate
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